Episode 82: Negroni Week 2023 With Lindsay Matteson

Negroni Week is taking place right now, from September 18-24. For this episode, we explore the wide-ranging world of Negroni variations with Lindsay Matteson. Currently the bar manager at the bitters-focused Barnacle and The Walrus and The Carpenter in Seattle, she’s also former head bartender at Amor y Amargo in New York City, and a longtime veteran at working with the Negroni both as a cocktail and as a creative template.

Radio Imbibe is the audio home of Imbibe magazine. In each episode, we dive into liquid culture, exploring the people, places, and flavors of the drinkscape through conversations about cocktails, coffee, beer, spirits, and wine. Keep up with us on Instagram, Pinterest, and Facebook. And if you’re not already a subscriber, we’d love to have you join us—click here to subscribe. 

Read the Episode Here

Paul Clarke

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Radio Imbibe, from Imbibe magazine. I’m Paul Clarke, Imbibe’s editor in chief. And it’s mid-September, which can mean only one thing in these parts: It’s Negroni Week. 

For more than 10 years now, Imbibe has been producing this event, which brings thousands of bars together worldwide to celebrate the Negroni and all of its many relatives while raising money for a good cause. This year’s Negroni Week Giving Partner is Slow Food, which works to cultivate a world where everyone can enjoy food and beverage that is good for them, good for the people who produce it, and good for the planet. 

Of course, Negroni Week could accomplish none of this without the support of the thousands of participating venues and from countless bartenders, servers, and Negroni fans who have helped make Negroni Week such a global success. To find out more about Negroni Week’s mission and giving partner, and to find a participating venue near you, head online to NegroniWeek.com. 

Now the cocktail at the heart of Negroni Week is—obviously—the Negroni. But that simple three-ingredient build isn’t just a perfect cocktail on its own. It also functions as a perfect starting point for branching off into many different flavor directions. One of the beautiful things about Negroni Week is seeing how bartenders worldwide take this simple formula and really have fun with it. So for this episode, we’re chatting with a bartender who has particular insight into all things bitter and bold. 

Lindsay Matteson is currently the bar manager for The Walrus and The Carpenter and for Barnacle in Seattle. Barnacle, of course, is one of the great amaro and aperitif-centered bars in America. And prior to helming that bar, Lindsay worked at a number of other great bars across the country, including a stint as head bartender at Amor y Amargo in New York City, another bitter-focused bar that helped shift the conversation and cocktail culture toward the Negroni and its ilk. 

I met up with Lindsay recently to talk about the Negroni and its many relatives and to hear about her approach to riffing on this iconic drink. We chatted outside on the patio as the restaurant and bar were preparing for service, so you’re going to hear the kitchen and the Ballard neighborhood in the background a little bit as we talk about all things bitter in anticipation of Negroni Week. 

[music]

Paul Clarke

Lindsay, welcome to Radio Imbibe.

Lindsay Matteson

Hi. Thank you for having me. 

Paul Clarke

Absolutely. You know, I wanted to take the opportunity to talk to you, and I’m so glad to have you on, because at the time that people are listening to this, it’s Negroni Week. And, you know, this will be the, I believe, 11th annual Negroni Week, where we’re working for a giving partner, which is Slow Food. And Negroni Week, for people who are just coming into it, is a worldwide event, and you know, you obviously have been a part of this for a while. Now, we’re at Barnacle, we’re sitting out on the patio before service. Right now, when we look at the Negroni, how central of a cocktail is the Negroni in the canon, and what kind of starting point does it provide people for really kind of building off of and playing with variations and relatives. 

Lindsay Matteson

So for me, it’s pretty fundamental. When we think about basically any cocktail that we’re creating now, there’s a few different templates. We work off of Old Fashioneds, Negronis, Manhattans, and then a sour. But it’s basically, for me, one of the four basic templates that will work, and all of the cocktails are created on, right? 

Paul Clarke

And you know, when you look at the essential components of a Negroni, you know, I think anybody listening to the Imbibe podcast or reads Imbibe knows what a Negroni is. It’s gin, sweet vermouth, and Campari. When you look at that basic foundation, especially looking at the vermouth–Campari mixture, I mean, basically I’ve just combined those in a bottle in the past and taken it to a dinner party and put it out with everything else on the table and say, “you know, add whatever you like to this and it’s really hard to go wrong.” How kind of utilitarian is that combination?

Lindsay Matteson

Sounds delicious to me. And like really I’ve never done that, but I will now. I think you can go a lot of different ways with it. Obviously, the Campari is a bitter element, so you’ve got to know that all your guests like bitter to some degree, but there’s so many variations within that. You know, you can get in a Boulevardier or Kingston Negronis, all sorts of different fun things. So there’s kind of something for everyone within that. 

Paul Clarke

So, working within the bar world, where you’ve been at places like Barnacle and Amor y Amargo, where you’ve worked with this tremendous category of amari and the growing category of vermouths. When you look at that kind of universe of flavors to be able to work with, what kinds of opportunities does that give you for exploration once you start playing with variations. 

Lindsay Matteson

Really, the possibilities are endless. Sother used to talk about it at Amor y Amargo, and at Amor y Amargo, there is no citrus juice. So pretty much every cocktail is a Manhattan, a Negroni, or an Old Fashioned variation. So the fun thing that we used to talk about at Amor was because there’s no fresh juice and there’s no syrups, there’s no sweeteners, there’s nothing but liquor there to work with. There’s sort of that feeling that you painted yourself into a corner. 

But what’s fun is that there’s actually millions of possibilities within that. There’s so many different amaros, it’s is a really, really fun category, as I call it. It’s largely unregulated. So there are things made all over the world with a huge variety of flavors. So you can find an amaro for anybody. So if you think of the Negroni as basically as amaro, spirit, vermouth, there’s really something for everyone kind of within in all of those categories. 

I’ve definitely done really juicy Negroni variations for people who wanted something citrusy. I used to do one called the Party Hat at Amor y Amargo that was for the bourbon-orange drinkers. Some people come in, they wanted like bourbon sours with orange juice. And I had one of those things. I had bourbon, and I would do bourbon, Cocchi Americano, and Amaro Lucano, which is really bright and orange and juicy. And they would love it. Vermouth in general is going to add like a really juicy flavor component to any drinks. So that’s why it’s a really nice tool to have in your wheelhouse when you’re making a Negroni variation. And then even when you’re adding a different amaro, they range so wildly in terms of flavor, from really, really approachable like Montenegro and Meletti to super, super, super bitter likes Fernet Branca. So you have this whole palette to work with. 

Paul Clarke

Now, you mentioned the Boulevardier and the Kingston Negroni as some of the more familiar variations we’ve seen. And these are just, you know, swapping out the base spirit: Boulevardier, everybody’s had one of those by now, just mixing in bourbon or rye whiskey. Kingston Negroni, ditto, except with Jamaican rum. Looking at this base spirit category, where else can you go? Like what are some of the other favorites that work in that realm? 

Lindsay Matteson

Yeah, I love a Tequila Negroni variation. They are really, really bright. You get a lot of great fruity notes to them. They can be very juicy. I think if somebody wants a more juicy cocktail, tequila is a really good go-to. I do one with quinquina, again, Cocchi Americano, it’s so juicy and it has all these really like killer juicy flavors to it. You can also do really fun White Negroni variations. So a White Negroni, basically any white spirit usually gin, right? Instead of Campari, using any clear or white amaro. So things like Aveze, Suze, we have a killer local one here called Genziana Fernanda that I’ll be featuring for Negroni Week. It’s delicious. And then any blanc vermouth or any dry vermouth. So if you really want something that’s more kind of grassy and you want to bring out all those grassy agave notes, a fun way to do that is with a White Negroni like tequila, Suze, Cap Corse Blanc instead of your vermouth, or even just Dolin Blanc or Dolin dry will give you so much more like dry grassy notes to it. And then the other thing you can do on top of there is add a little bit of tincture bitters, which I always like to do. So if you’re playing with that template, let’s say hypothetically, you did want a really green herbal grassy white Negroni. I would probably start with tequila for the base and do something like Cap Corse blanc, Suze, and then I probably add a little bit of celery bitters or even like the Bittermens Scarborough bitters, which are parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme bitters. So you have so many options to make so many different variations based on this one really killer template. 

Paul Clarke

And I want to bring in one thing. You know, last year for Negroni Week for the podcast, we talked to Francesco Lafranconi, about basically making the perfect Negroni, like breaking it down to its core components. One element that I think people kind of skip over a lot, you know, we talk about different base spirits, we talk about different bittering agents, but we skip over the vermouth aspect. And, you know, when you look at the core of sweet vermouth, it goes into a classic Negroni. That in itself is beautiful because it has, you know, this huge utilitarian component in so many cocktails. But when you look at that and the kinds of opportunities you have and the different options you have behind the bar of different sweet vermouth, vermouth-like things, that kind of have that pronounced complexity. 

Lindsay Matteson

You know, there’s so much that that ingredient is bringing to the table. This is another reason it’s so fun. Just like what amaro you’re using. You have such a variety and I’ve definitely done the same Negroni version if you have a couple of different varieties, even at home, it’s fun to try this. You do the same proportions, same base spirit and the same amaro with two different vermouths. Let’s say you use Dolin Blanc and Carpano Bianco or even go a little bit different and use like the Mattei Cap Corse Blanc quinquina or something in that realm. You’re going to get two really, really different cocktails. The viscosity level can be really different. And just any time any two ingredients play together, they kind of bring out different things together. You know, you can get really romantic with this and say, it’s like any time that I talk to a different person, it’s going to be a really different conversation any different blanc vermouth, for me, with any sweet vermouth, you know, depending on, if somebody orders a Negroni from me, depending on which gin they want, I’ll probably use a different sweet vermouth, and I might change the proportion a little bit.

Sometimes people really want Carpano Antica and they really want a more intense, sweet vermouth, but they also want a delicate gin like Plymouth. And those guys in equal parts aren’t going to really work together. The Carpano Antica is going to overpower it. Obviously you want it to shine a little bit, but maybe you take that down and you do one and a half, three quarters, three-quarters spec versus one-one-one, which is how I usually like mine. Even like something you think of as a simple and basic as vermouth, every one has so many different nuances to it that it’s really, really fun to play with. I like to play a lot with finding the right vermouth for the right Negroni. 

Paul Clarke

When we look at the core breakdown of a classic Negroni—the gin, sweet vermouth, and Campari—Campari, obviously that’s kind of, you know, one of the defining characters of the Negroni. And we talk about different bittering agents that come into it. How does Campari function in conjunction with some other bitter ingredients? You’re not limited to only three ingredients in a Negroni variation. 

Lindsay Matteson

Yeah, we were just talking about this. I’ve got a really, really fun one that I call my Concrete Jungle Bird (see recipe below), which is Jungle Bird flavors, but no citrus. This is one I used to do at Amor y Amargo that I’ve sort of tweaked and perfected. The amaro is split between Campari and Lucano. I want all of the bright bitter gentian notes of Campari and those bright orange and grapefruit notes to it, but I also want some more juicy orange depth to it that the Lucano provides, too. So let’s say you’re working off a basic template. You’ve got an ounce of bitter, an ounce of base spirit, and an ounce of vermouth. you can split that ounce of bitter into half and half. So I have an ounce. If we cut out a half an ounce of Campari, an ounce of aged rum, an ounce of vermouth, and you can even split those up two. So for mine, that ounce of rum I split between Plantation 5 Year and Smith and Cross, pretty classic rum style. You wouldn’t use all of one of those. And like a rum cocktail, you would usually have three. One is a lengthener, one for body, and one for those kind of funky esters. But here I’m just using two. Any of those you can split up more and make it more complex. 

I think what’s important when you’re doing that is to understand why you’re doing that and have a reason for it. I really love a simple Negroni because it lets a few ingredients shine, and if you were working with the right ingredients, I feel really proud of myself when I’ve created a cocktail with only three ingredients, especially if they’re in equal parts. And then not to take it a step further, but you can also deal with what garnish you’re using. And obviously an orange twist would be the classic, but a grapefruit twist or a lemon twist or even a lime twist is going to bring something totally different to the table. for me. Grapefruit garnish can cut through anything cloying, which is really nice. It’s a nice back pocket cheat of mine that now I’m sharing with everybody. Make something a little more bitter, if it’s not quite bitter enough. 

Paul Clarke

Now we’ve gone through the base spirit. We’ve gone through the vermouth, we’ve gone through the bittering agent. Are there any other best practices or any other thoughts to share as we move toward the exit here? 

Lindsay Matteson

You know, my thing is, you need to, even if you want to, just add a little bit of tincture bitters. I usually just like one dash of Angostura in my Negroni,  it’s just it’s extra decadent, it’s extra yummy. Who doesn’t who doesn’t love Angostura bitters in something?  You don’t need it, and you’re not going to be able to tell it’s there, but you can tell if it’s not there, if you taste them side by side. 

But let’s say you’ve got a guest or a friend over who wants something spicy, throw a little bit of spicy bitter in there. And then you can even start with the tincture bitters as your starting off point or something. You want spicy. Obviously, mezcal is a good go to, scotch can also be a good go to, because smoke and spicy are so good, and then build your Negroni around that. I think the tincture bitters can be a really, really good fun add there, especially if you’re working with a guest who wants something really specific. You can get some really, really citrusy, bright floral herbal flavors from all these ingredients that come straight out of bottles. 

Paul Clarke

Fantastic. Well, Lindsay, thanks so much for taking the opportunity to go through all of this with us and Happy Negroni Week. 

Lindsay Matteson

Thanks. You, too. Thanks for having me. 

[music]

Paul Clarke

You can find Lindsay Matteson behind the bar at The Walrus and The Carpenter and at Barnacle in Seattle. Check those out online at thewalrusbar.com and barnacleseattle.com. And once again, everything related to Negroni Week can be found online at negroniweek.com. 

And that’s it for this episode. Be sure to subscribe to Radio Imbibe on your favorite podcast app to keep up with future episodes. You can find plenty of articles, recipes, and our full back catalog of podcast episodes online at our website, imbibemagazine.com. Check us out on Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, and Threads for all of your social media needs. And if you’re not already a subscriber to the print and or digital issues of Imbibe, then here’s how we can change that. Just follow the link in this episode’s notes and we’ll be happy to help you out. 

I’m Paul Clarke. This is Radio Imbibe. Catch you next time.