Episode 146: Talking Tequila With the People Who Make and Serve It

Tequila is Mexico’s signature spirit, and the focus of our March/April 2026 issue. To better understand tequila, it’s valuable to hear from the people who produce it and sell it, and who spend their lives and careers working with tequila. For this episode, we talk with producers including Guillermo Erickson Sauza (Tequila Fortaleza), Salvador “Chava” Rosales Trejo (Tequila Cascahuin), Carlos Camarena (Tequila Ocho), Tony Salles (Tequila El Tequileño), Sergio Mendoza (Tequila Don Fulano), Ana Maria Romero (Mijenta Tequila), and Jenny Camarena (El Tesoro Tequila), along with agave bar owner John Douglass (Pretty Decent).

Radio Imbibe is the audio home of Imbibe magazine. In each episode, we dive into liquid culture, exploring the people, places, and flavors of the drinkscape through conversations about cocktails, coffee, beer, spirits, and wine. Keep up with us on Instagram, Threads, and Facebook. And if you’re not already a subscriber, we’d love to have you join us—click here to subscribe. 

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Paul Clarke

Hey everybody, welcome back to Radio Imbibe from Imbibe Magazine. I’m Paul Clarke, Imbibe’s Editor-in-Chief. 

And we’re going to be doing something a little bit different for this episode. If you’re familiar with Radio Imbibe, if you’ve been following the podcast for any length of time, you’ll know that typically we’ll have an interview conversation with an individual or a couple of folks about some specific aspect of the drinks world, some area of their expertise, something they’re working on. We’re still going to do that to some degree. But I wanted to do something a little bit different because for our March/April issue, which is out now, we have our cover feature on tequila. 

And I realized while we were putting this tequila coverage together that there are so many voices, so many different perspectives within the world of tequila that I wanted to share with our readers and our audience. Because it’s so compelling, so rich, and so detailed, and sharing this could be a good way for everyone to better understand the world of tequila and how it’s made. 

So for this episode, I’m going to be chatting with more than a half dozen tequila producers and professionals and an owner of an agave-oriented bar. These are folks who spend their lives and their careers making or selling tequila, focusing on every aspect of the process, from growing and selecting the agave, to cooking and crushing it, through fermentation, distillation, and all the way through maturation. I wanted to share the voices and perspectives of these folks because each of them has their own particular way of making tequila, as well as thoughts on what tequila means. They have thoughts on the importance of heritage and tradition, and on the importance of innovation, as well as on the significance of taking care of the agaves, along with the land and the people who make tequila possible in the first place. 

I recorded these interviews while working on that tequila feature, and I’m sharing these conversations with their permission. The folks we’re going to hear from include Guillermo Erickson Sauza, founder of Tequila Fortaleza; Salvador Chava-Rosales, master distiller for Tequila Cascahuin; Carlos Camarena, co-founder with Tomas Estes of Tequila Ocho; Tony Salles, master distiller for El Tequileno Tequila; Sergio Mendoza, co-founder with his uncle Enrique Fonseca of Tequila Don Fulano; Ana Maria Romero, maestra tequilera for Mijenta Tequila; Jenny Camarena, an Imbibe 75 alum for this year and the master distiller for El Tesoro Tequila; and John Douglass, co-owner with his wife Jean of the agave-oriented bar Pretty Decent in Louisville, Kentucky. 

At its simplest, tequila is made using agave, water, and yeast. The world of tequila is much more extensive and complicated, of course, and the real starting point for tequila are the people who make it, and in some cases, the families who have made it for many generations. While at one level we’re talking about a familiar spirit in a bottle and that may be destined for your favorite Margaritas or other cocktails, on a larger level, we’re talking about generations of heritage and tradition and skills and techniques sometimes passed from generation to generation within a family and shared among siblings and cousins. 

Several of the individuals we’re going to hear from share that long family history of making tequila. We’re going to kick things off with Guillermo Erickson Sauza, the founder of Tequila Fortaleza and a fifth-generation descendant of Don Cenobio Sauza, who opened a tequila distillery in the town of Tequila in 1873 and is credited with bringing international attention to the signature spirit of Mexico. 

Guillermo Sauza

You know, we go back and, well, as you know in the story, my great-great-grandfather, Cenobio Sauza, was the one that started our history here in this town. In the 1850s, he arrived here he was a sixteen-year-old boy and his father had died. But he could do something a lot of people couldn’t do back in the 1850s. And that’s read and write. So, his father was a notary public. And everything, as you know, here are kind of attorneys. So, he could read and write and understood business. Then he came here and he got his start here in Tequila working on a hacienda.

In those days, the system was, the land allocation was all in giant haciendas that were 5,000 to up to 20,000 hectares. He got started working on a hacienda and he learned how to run a hacienda young. And at some point in 1873, he leased a distillery and eventually bought that distillery. And it was 1870, he leased it. In 1873, he bought it and he started a brand called Sauza, of course. It was in our family for three generations and went to, he had, I think it was eight children and the child that inherited the distillery was Eladio Sauza, my great-grandfather who lived till 1946. And then my grandfather ran the company and he ran until he sold it in 1976. It may have been 77, but 76, somewhere around there.

I was 20 years old and growing up down here. We spent all our summers here in Mexico and I spent a couple of school years here. We grew up my grandfather and at that time, Tequila Sauza was the largest tequila distillery in Mexico. It was more sales than Cuervo at that time. And my grandfather had, and I think he’s known by the industry as well. Bringing tequila to the world, to more than just the United States, to all around the world. 

Paul Clarke 

Chava Rosales is the third generation of his family to be making tequila at Tequila Cascahuin, and the family’s relationship with agave and tequila stretches back much further than that. In addition to tequilas sold under their own label, Cascahuin makes tequila for brands including Wild Common and Siembra Valles. Here’s Chava Rosales. 

Chava Rosales

Okay. The history of the Cascahuin is a, Cascahuin is a family company with three direct generations. The last year we celebrate or the 70th anniversary. You know, my grandfather, Salvador Rosales Viseño founded the company and the brand in 1955. In the second generation, my uncle, Carlos, my aunts, Tomasa, Maria, Angelina, and my father, were all involved in the business, too. Today, in the third generation, my father, Salvador Rosales Torres, is a director of the company. And my sisters, Montserrat and Teresa, my brother, Benjamin, and I all work together in the business too.

The tradition actually goes back to the 1904, my grandfather working in a small taberna, making what was known at the time as vino mezcal, which today we call tequila. In 1955, he decided to start his own distillery and founded Cascahuin. And the name Cascahuin is very meaningful to us. It comes from a pre-Hispanic word that means a party on the hill or hill of the light. It’s also the name of the highest hill in the town of El Arenal, Jalisco. El Arenal, Jalisco, is located at the Cascahuin Distillery. This is a part of who we are as a family company and how we continue the craft of making tequila. 

Paul Clarke

The Camarena family also counts multiple generations in the world of tequila. And today, the family currently has three siblings who are all producing tequila at different distilleries. We’ll hear from two of those siblings today, Jenny Camarena at El Tesoro and Carlos Camarena of Tequila Ocho. And a third sibling, Felipe, runs the El Pandillo distillery that makes G4 tequila. Here’s Carlos Camarena on the family’s heritage in tequila. 

Carlos Camarena

Well, I could start by saying that actually two of my ancestors were the first guys to ever bring the blue agave into the highlands of Jalisco. That is in the 1880s. And actually, two of my great-great-grandparents established the first two distilleries back in those days when they were not even known as distilleries. We used to call them, or the people used to call them, tabernas.

There are stories in the family on how when they were transporting the plants from the Tequila Valley into the highlands. There was people coming out of their houses, very excited, thinking that they were bringing pineapples. And unfortunately, they found out that they were not edible, they were not pineapples. But still nowadays, when we harvest agave, we call the harvested agave the piñas, which means pineapple in Spanish. So as far as I can remember, my family has been involved in growing agave and producing tequila. I am fifth generation now on doing this. And again, our background goes back for about 140 years. 

Paul Clarke

At the outset, we heard from Guillermo Sauza, a descendant of the Sauza family, which is one of the most significant families in the history of tequila. Another significant family in the history of tequila, of course, is the Cuervo family. Tony Salles at El Tequileno is a member of the extended Cuervo family. And today he’s working at the distillery founded by his grandfather, Don Jorge Salles Cuervo. 

Tony Salles

Well, he started making tequila, first of all, because he lived here in the town of Tequila, and he decided to start making tequila. But all the tequila that he made was for Casa Cuervo. My grandfather was asking him, you know, he’s called Jorge Salles Cuervo. So yes, we related to the family back in those days. The Cuervos weren’t the owners of Tequila Cuervo anymore. So, but we knew some people, and they gave him the chance to do tequila for them. So he made tequila from 1941 all the way to 1958. 1958, it was the last year that he made tequila for Casa Cuervo. And then 1959 he launched his own brand. 

Paul Clarke

Let’s think about the agave for a moment. All tequila starts with the agave. And while there are dozens of different types of agave growing throughout Mexico and all around the world, only one variety is legally allowed to be used to make tequila. Agave tequilana Weber, variety Azul, commonly known as Blue Weber Agave. The Blue Weber variety has a few different characteristics that make it desirable for tequila. For one thing, it typically reaches maturity at around 5 to 7 years old, which is relatively quickly compared to other varieties, which may take a decade or more to fully mature.

Blue Weber agave also reproduces relatively easily and abundantly via a couple of different processes that we’ll get into in a few moments. Blue Weber agave typically has a good sugar content, which is useful for making tequila, and is proven resilient in the climate of Jalisco and the surrounding areas, which is where all agave destined for tequila must legally be grown. With so much depending on this one single plant, a thorough understanding and respect of the agave is central to determining the quality of a tequila and supporting the long-term sustainability of the crop and the communities that raise it. Carlos Camarena from Tequila Ocho has spent his career working with agave. 

Carlos Camarena

Well, let me start by telling you that I am an agronomist. I studied agriculture because to me, it’s kind of very simple to think that tequila, the raw materials for tequila are just agave, water, and yeast, nothing else. And therefore, we cannot control the quality of the water itself or the yeast. But we can control the quality of the agave. It is the only raw material that we can control and to me, it was very simple to think that if you have a first quality raw material, then you can produce a first quality tequila. 

Paul Clarke 

When you think about the raw materials that go into your favorite spirits, things like the corn that goes into your bourbon or the sugarcane that goes into your rum, these are relatively fast-growing crops that can be grown and harvested year after year. Agave, however, has a much longer lifespan, so farming agave requires a long-term approach. While some producers of mass-market tequila may sometimes utilize agave before they’re fully mature in order to meet demand, producers focused on flavor and quality more typically look for fully mature plants that have desirable flavors and aromatics and sugar levels, which can be a much more time- and labor-intensive process.

Sergio Mendoza is the co-founder of Tequila Don Fulano with his uncle Enrique Fonseca. When I spoke with Sergio, he emphasized the distinct aspects that they’re looking for in the agave that they’re using, and about what these growing and harvesting decisions can mean for the health of the soil and for the region’s environment. 

Sergio Mendoza

Because the single, the singlemost important thing for us, and it’s very dear because it’s our origin, is the agricultural part. Now, we separate production in three main pillars. Now, agriculture, what we call the craft, now everything that happens in the distillery, how you cook, how you extract, fermentation, distillation, and then maturation. 

In terms of agriculture, that is, it is the singlemost important thing, because if you don’t have a good raw material, which for us means maturity, there’s nothing else you can do to correct it. Whereas if you have selected mature agave and you make sure that everything that arrives to the distillery is selected in what we call maduro and pinto agaves, then there’s all these possibilities to play with. So we take a lot of care in that first part, in selection of agave.

We have the big fortune of being growers so that we have complete control on how we select, and we do a selective harvest. We do not harvest by chronological time, no, not by seeing, oh, this agave of this field was planted in 2019. It should be ready. Let’s take it all, no. No, we literally go to the fields. No, Enrique has an interesting saying that to make good tequila, you have to walk the fields, no. Literally, this one, not these three, that one over there, no.

So we can harvest, let’s say, 20% of a field and then go to some other fields and then come back in three, four months and harvest another 10 or 20%. And it can take a full year or even more to finish harvesting a field, no. And then we, for every cycle of agave, we try to do at least two cycles of other crops, no, especially legumes, no, which fix nitrogen into the soil. A very important point, we own most of the soil of the land where we plant agave. I mentioned this, a lot of people miss it, but in the economy of tequila, with the growth of tequila, there is, of course, a lot of companies that grow agave to sell agave, and that’s their only business. And they plant on rented land.

These, of course, when it’s rented, they usually go heavy on agrochemicals, no crop rotation, no. They take the most out of it, planting agave and agave and agave, four-year cycle sometimes. And then, of course, they deplete the soil, but it’s not theirs, no. They give it back, they go rent more soil. So for us, it’s very important that…some orchards, we call them orchards, no, some plots of land that have given us agave for a hundred years, but they give us agave in a hundred years, no, so we need to take care of our soil, no, and for us that is very important, no. 

Paul Clarke

As I mentioned a moment ago, blue Weber agave reproduce at a relatively high rate as compared to other types of agave. And this reproduction usually takes one of two forms. There’s our accustomed sexual reproduction in which the plant grows to full maturity and then shoots up a flowering stalk called a quiote, which attracts pollinators like hummingbirds and bats and helps ensure genetic diversity among the agave in the area. This growing of a quiote, however, is the agave plant’s final act. After flowering and reproducing, the agave dies. 

A drawback to letting an agave fully flower, however, is that this process taps that supply of sugar reserves that might otherwise go to making tequila. So what most agave growers and tequila producers do today is to rely on a second form of reproduction: the rhizomal offshoots that the agave plant starts growing after a couple of years. These offshoots, called hijuelos or pups, will eventually grow into full agave plants themselves, and will share the genetic material of the parent plant.

So on the plus side, growers can simply remove these offshoots and then use them later to plant a new crop. This type of asexual reproduction does limit the agave’s genetic diversity, which is a concern shared many in the tequila world today. Ana Maria Romero at Mijenta Tequila is one of those paying close attention to agave genetics, and along with the team at Mijenta is working to help protect genetic diversity by intentionally allowing a percentage of the agave go to seed. 

Ana Maria Romero

The agave for me is the first parameter we are going to take by Mijenta is the aging, because it’s very important to develop elegance and complexity, aromatic. Our agave’s aging is between five or six years. And another thing we are going to respect is all the practice agriculture with the agaveros. The respect of the plant that these people left in the land, agave. We have to make two ways to the reproduction of the plants. The first one is the sprouts. This is not genetics, the correct way. And the second is the flowers. And ask or always ask these people left in the agave, minimum the 20% average. Plants that develop a quiote and we made a seeds for. 

We want to respect all the genetic of the agave because this plant is not designed for the reproduction. We want to type of plants this is. For this reason, our first thing is aging. The second is practice agriculture, respect for the land. And they use very friendly with the environment. Take care when you use agave of the quiote, you need to wait for made tequila between eight and 10 years. Maybe 12. 

Paul Clarke

If we were talking about wine right now, at some point we’d get around to talking about the region where the grapes were grown and we’d break it down to particular vineyards and particular fields with their own soils and sun exposure and rainfall and any number of other variables that contribute to that wine’s terroir. The notion of terroir and tequila is relatively new.

It’s long been clear that agave from the higher elevation highlands in Jalisco make tequilas with different aromas and flavor components than do agaves from the lower elevation areas in the valley. But years ago, Carlos Camarena and Tomas Estes began investigating a tequila terroir at a much smaller, much more specific level. Since that time, Tequila Ocho has been introducing drinkers around the world to the differences that are evident in single estate tequilas.

Tequila Ocho has now been in production for a number of years. And that’s been long enough for Carlos Camarena to notice some of the changes that are evident in agave, even when they’re taken from the same field based largely on this longer lifespan of the agave. 

Carlos Camarena

With Tequila Ocho, we have been able to only repeat two states. And with a decade of difference, and we noticed that even coming from the same particular field, the tequila was different. Why it was, we said, well, the climate has changed in the last decade. The fertility of the soil was not the same. The amount of rain cumulated in those two decades was different. And therefore, surprisingly, the tequila produced out of the same particular field after a decade. It is different because the agave was grown different.  And it is very simple. 

You can see that in wine year to harvesting the grapes from the same field. So I only according to how the microclimate was for that particular year. There would be a difference. So even is is more with the agave. Considering that it can take seven to eight years to grow and mature. And therefore it is absorbing all of these surroundings and also all of these influence on the climate that, as we have seen, it is changing. But what we actually see is that the climate is not the same nowadays than what it was 30, 40, 50 years ago, at least in my particular area. And therefore, we notice also on the agave a different behavior while growing and a different yield and different result at the moment that we are processing that agave to convert it into tequila. 

Paul Clarke

So your agave has reached full maturity and you’re ready to harvest it and make it into tequila. What’s next? Well, first, the jimadors head out into the fields and harvest the plant, removing the fibrous leaves and preparing the heart of the agave, or the piña, for the next stages in the process. The piñas are typically cut and cooked using one of several methods.

Some producers use steam-injected masonry ovens in a process that can take several days, while others use a more modern tool, an autoclave, that functions much in the same way that your pressure cooker or your instant pot does at home and can cook a batch of agave in under a day. This cooking process is essential for converting the agave’s complex carbohydrates into fermentable sugars. And now that it’s been cooked, we need to extract those sugars from the agave’s fibers so we can proceed with making tequila.

There are a few different ways to crush an agave in order to access those sugars. Traditionally, the process was done by hand, which is slow and inefficient and really hard manual labor. Hand tools were replaced by a tahona. A tahona is typically a big stone wheel that can weigh 2 tons that’s rolled across the cooked agave in a specially designed pit, while workers rinse the fibers and collect the sugar-rich liquid for fermenting.

More recently, some producers have shifted to a much more efficient roller mill, similar to those used to process sugarcane. The roller mill is fast and does a great job at extracting these agave sugars from the fibers. So is there a difference in aroma and flavor depending on which crushing process is used? Producers such as Patron use both processes, which gives them options for later blending the tequilas together. But some producers, such as Fortaleza and El Tesoro, prefer to stick with the older method of using a stone tahona. Here’s Jenny Camarena from El Tesoro to explain why. 

Jenny Camarena

So, what we’re using is the most important process, most of all because of the profile. With the roller mill, it’s a really neutral process because we can only squeeze the juice. And we separated fiber from liquid, I mean solid from liquid, in one step. And that’s pretty much it. But when we’re using the tahona now, we continue working with everything together.

The fiber, the pulp, the juice, the water, and the influence of the stone, it kind of grinds itself into the process, so we can get more layers of flavor. It’s bolder than when we are only using the roller mill. This doesn’t mean that some process is better than the other. But if we are looking for more complexity, we are definitely going to need a tahona to fulfill this situation. So, this is why we are not willing to change that. The consumers wouldn’t recognize El Tesoro if it was not made with tahona. 

Paul Clarke

The tahona is a time-honored way of crushing agave, but the roller mill has its advocates, too. When Carlos Camarena was working as the master distiller at El Tesoro, he used the stone tahona. But while determining the direction for Tequila Ocho and the types of characteristics they were looking for, he found himself gravitating toward using a roller mill instead of a tahona. Here’s Carlos to explain why.

Carlos Camarena

When we were trying to decide how to actually process the agave, to highlight the agave and the terroir, with Tom and myself, we run about a dozen different ways of producing tequila with the same agave in the same distillery. And after that, we had a blind taste, and it was chosen the sample number eight. Therefore, the name ocho, because it was the sample number eight that we decided that it was the one that was showcasing the cleanest agave flavor. And that particular process involved the use of a stainless steel roller mill.

So, therefore, there was no iron or iron oxide that would actually affect or produce little particles that would affect the taste of the tequila. It was cleaner by doing it this way. Also, we tried producing it by using a tahona, which is a stone wheel that crushes the agave. But that stone also, it is releasing tiny particles of minerals on it. And therefore, tequila produced with a tahona tends to be a little bit more mineral. But then it is not about the terroir of the agave. Then it is these other aspects of production that are influencing the final result. So, for us, the use of a stainless steel roller mill, it was, we do not add anything to the process. Because we want the process to be as clean, as pure agave as possible. 

Paul Clarke

So far, we’ve been talking about some of the older and more traditional ways of making tequila. But there’s another way of making tequila that has become increasingly popular in recent years because of its high degree of efficiency. This process involves a massive machine called a diffuser. The diffuser works on a scale that these other processes simply cannot.

At its most basic, whole uncooked agaves can be fed directly into the machine where they’re finally shredded. Hot water and sometimes acid are then applied to the shredded agave and the liquid coming off of that is collected. Now, since the agave hasn’t been cooked at this point, this liquid is not full of sugar. Instead, it’s full of fructans, the complex carbohydrates in which the agave locks up its sugar content. This fructan-rich liquid is then cooked to convert those fructans into sugar. And then the batch is ready for fermentation and distillation. 

Diffusers can be a polarizing topic in today’s tequila world. To be absolutely clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with a diffuser or with tequilas made from them. It’s simply a tool, and the tool can be used in a variety of ways. When it comes to extracting sugars from agave, diffusers are extraordinarily good at their job. They have an efficiency rate that far outpaces roller mills or tahonas. But critics point out that such efficiency can come at a cost. That the tequilas coming out of the process may lack many of the aromatic or flavor components found in more traditionally made tequilas. That the process prioritizes quantity over quality. And that some producers are trying to bridge that flavor gap by using some of the sweeteners, flavorings, and other additives that are legally allowed in the tequila world. 

And this additive conversation is another polarizing topic, particularly considering that regulatory authorities won’t allow producers to indicate on their bottles or in their advertising whether or not additives are being used in a particular tequila. This debate is not unlike earlier debates on tequila’s production and quality, centering on the use of non-agave sugars in tequila. At one point, producers were able to make tequilas using around 70% agave sugar with cheaper sources such as sugarcane contributing the remaining sugars for fermentation. That figure was dropped to 51% several decades ago. And while today’s tequila world is dominated by 100% agave tequilas, in which all of the sugar in that batch is coming from Blue Weber agave, cheaper tequilas, commonly called mixtos, are made with up to 49% non-agave sugars and are still prevalent in today’s market. 

It’s all very complicated. And the debate about what’s allowable and how much consumer choice should play into the matter may take a while to settle. Here’s one perspective on diffusers and additives from Guillermo Sauza from Fortaleza, which, it should be noted, does not use diffusers in their process, instead using more of the old-school methods, including cooking the agave in a masonry oven and crushing it with a stone tahona. 

Guillermo Sauza

Well, first of all, I’d say there’s nothing wrong with the diffuser. It’s just much more efficient, and it’s getting everything. You know, I liken it to the orange juice, you know, and squeezing the shit out of it, you know. You’re getting everything out of it, and you’re not wasting anything. So, they get great yields, and you know what?

If we didn’t have the diffuser, there definitely wouldn’t be enough tequila, because, you know, using the roller mill, you get half the yield. So, you wouldn’t be able to make enough 100% agave tequila. It just wouldn’t happen. So, there’s nothing wrong with the diffuser, you know. It’s not my choice, but for many people, that’s fine, you know. I think the additive is an issue that I think we have a friend of ours that has, you know, gotten to a lot of problems with that. And the industry is fighting the additives. Nobody wants to disclose what additives they have. I know in the United States, they tried to pass a law that they have the disclosure of additives also, like they have to do on food. And it did not pass. I think that there’s an awareness, and I think it’s, you know, personal opinion.

I’d probably get in trouble for this, but it’s like shoveling sand against the tide. If the public wants to know, and they’re going that direction, they’re going to keep going that direction. I mean, you’re not going to change that. I liken it to the 51% agave, mixto agave versus 100%. The public’s telling you they want to drink 100%. And the market has gone towards 100% for the last 20 years. Many companies have fought that, trying to come out with, hey, the mixto’s better, the mixto’s okay, the mixto’s that. But, hey, the consumer’s asking for 100% agave, and you’re going to try and sell them, you know, 70%. It used to be 70%. Now it’s 51%. I think about 30 years now it’s been 51%.

But you’re trying to sell the consumer something he doesn’t want. So I think people have to look at what’s the consumer asking for. If the consumer wants disclosure of additives, I wish, you know, people need to look at this and say, what’s the consumer demanding, because really, we’re all trying to make a product for the consumer. And if the consumer is saying, you know, they want disclosure on it, that’s where they want to go. 

Paul Clarke

So what’s the problem with additives? Things like sugar and caramel color are widely used in some other parts of the spirits world and all throughout the food world. And it rarely seems like that big of a deal. But for John Douglass from Pretty Decent in Louisville, Kentucky, the issue isn’t so much, are there additives in this tequila, but why are there additives in tequila in the first place? And is that indicative of bigger concerns? 

John Douglass

The additive thing to me is, I think that we have the additive argument all wrong in the way that we discuss it because it’s not about additives. I don’t care if I consume a little bit of glycerin or a little bit of corn syrup or a little bit of natural oak flavor or anything like that. You know, I consume those things in other spirits and other liqueurs and I don’t write them off for that.

For me, the thing about the additives is, well, why are there additives? And there are additives because if you drank that product off the still, it wouldn’t be any good. It wouldn’t be very good because the agave are immature and their fructan structures aren’t really well formed and they’re not very complex. And they’re not very good because they’re distilled to a really high proof in a column still that strips most of the flavor out of it. They’re not very good because they’re not gently cooked. They’re just kind of like harshly autolyzed in a diffuser. And that’s really, to me, it’s what’s behind the additive thing.

It’s not the additives itself. You know, it’s things like labor. Mezcalistas has done some really good reporting on this over the course of the last year. The thing that has led us to sort of the inflection point we’re at with some of these class action lawsuits is the agave farmers in Jalisco. Some of them have been, you talk about the violence in the Tequila Wars book. There are still people down there who are being kidnapped and beaten over tequila and what they’re saying about tequila. What they’re saying about the industrially produced tequilas and their belief that these international corporations are trying to squeeze the agaveros off of their land. It’s a survival thing for them. And that is what the additive thing is for me is that there’s labor, there’s ecological considerations. There’s socioeconomic considerations that the additives are covering up. 

Paul Clarke

As several of these producers have noted by now, the only ingredients in traditional tequila are agave, which we’ve talked about a fair amount now, yeast and water. Yeast may take second billing in this list of ingredients. But the role it plays is far more than simply converting sugar into alcohol. Yeast can contribute all kinds of aromas and flavors to a finished spirit. And in today’s tequila world, producers have several different options for the yeast they use. Some places may have a very specific select yeast that’s produced in a lab and provided for their use. Others, however, may lean more into traditional practices, such as cultivating the yeast that naturally occur in the field and in the distilleries, and keeping that flavor line going from batch to batch. Jenny Camarena at El Tesoro follows a path like this one. Here’s her take. 

Jenny Camarena

It’s a natural fermentation. We continue growing it by saving a few liters of, like making yogurt or sourdough. We can save a few liters of the original liquid. And then we add fresh and new juice, so it starts fermenting, and we save a few liters of that. So it’s kind of reproducing itself. But yeah, it’s also very important to say that it’s natural yeast, that it’s living actually there, at the distillery. And it’s not that easy to control because it’s a living thing. And it’s mutating every, I mean, all the time. But I believe that’s kind of like the beauty of this process, to leave it being natural and just letting Mother Nature take the lead. And we are just following the rules. 

Paul Clarke

As Jenny noted, yeast is always changing, always evolving and mutating and going in different directions. If you’re in a hyper-controlled distillery and you want the same thing coming out the same way every time, then this scenario can be a nightmare. If, however, this whole random beauty of nature concept fits into your thinking about what a tequila can be, then you also have the option of taking more of a backseat in the process and letting naturally occurring yeasts determine the direction for you. Carlos Camarena says such a way of thinking is not at all new in making tequila. And it’s a process that he embraces himself at Tequila Ocho. 

Carlos Camarena

Well, that is probably part of the family inheritance because my grandfather, when he started distilling tequila, of course, there was no such a thing as commercial yeast. So it was the airborne yeast, and actually the yeast is coming in the agave from the fields. So every time that we bring agave from a different field, also we have slightly different yeast that it is coming in the agave.

But as we were always using natural wild yeast, we got used to that. And we learned to appreciate the natural flavor that that yeast would provide instead of trying to go to something commercial. And therefore, our way of thinking, it was, well, if it’s not broken, why fix it? We are used to deal with this natural airborne yeast. Let’s keep on doing it the same way. Because at the end of the day, we really enjoy producing a very traditional tequila. So instead of trying to manipulate things, what we try to do is to facilitate things for modern nature to do its own job. 

Paul Clarke

Tequila producers have a choice of using a pot still or a column still for making their tequila. Most high-volume tequilas follow the column still route, while more traditional producers typically embrace the classic pot still. Though some, such as Don Fulano, like to use both for the range of options it provides.

Now once you’ve gone through this whole process of growing the agave and harvesting it and cooking it and crushing it and letting the yeast do what yeast does, and you’ve then distilled this liquid into the spirit we know as tequila, what comes next? You could very well call it done. Add a little bit of water to it if you like to reach the desired strength. Then bottle it up and sell it as a blanco or platinum tequila. Or you could look at the wonders of oak and the properties it can lend to tequila.

Something to call out here, though, if you’ve ever visited a whiskey distillery and tasted the freshly made spirit right off the still, it’s good. Sure, if it’s well made and that fresh new make whiskey can have tons of flavor and aromas. But whiskey typically benefits from spending years in oak barrels, picking up color and flavor from the wood, and giving its natural aromas and flavors time to evolve and mature over time. Tequila, however, typically kicks off with a pretty flavorful starting point, one that many of us are delighted to drink as unaged blanco tequilas.

So tequila producers typically approach oak maturation with a gentler hand and a much shorter timeframe. A reposado tequila needs to spend only a few months in an oak container, while an añejo, considered an old tequila, spends a minimum of one year, which is practically nothing in the world of whiskey. For producers who put so much emphasis on the delicate nuances of flavor to be found in the agave, how do they approach oak? Let’s start with Carlos Camarena and his approach at Tequila Ocho. 

Carlos Camarena

From a reposado, what we decided to do, you were to eventually have a reposado, anejo, even an extra anejo in the market, because then we can kind of reach to different consumers that have reaching different palates. But at the same time, we wanted keep on having the agave as the central piece. Therefore, we decided to go to the minimum required aging by law for tequila, which for reposado is two months. For anejo, it’s one year, and for extra anejo it’s three years. But instead of using first filling or second filling barrels, we decided to use barrels that my family had been using for tequila for 25, 30, 35 years. Therefore, those barrels were basically exhausted.

They had no tannins, they had almost no color, almost no flavor to impart to the tequila. What came to my mind, it was, well, if the agave is the piece of art that we want to showcase, then we will use the oak and the aging, kind of like adding a frame to that art. So the reposado is a very thin frame of oak that will add a little bit of color, a little bit of warmness, but highlighting the art itself, not covering it. And for the anejo, you could think on probably a little thicker frame with maybe with a little bit of carving. So it is a nice frame that we are imparting something to enhance, again, the agave, to enhance the art.

And when I think on extra añejo, I think on walking into a museum, beautiful frames with a lot of carving, in some cases with silver, with gold on them. But hey, nobody walks into the museum thinking of the frame. They go there to enjoy the art. So what we tried to do it was to use the oak only as a frame to enhance the art that it was inside that, which is in this case, the agave. And again, the agave content into the tequila. 

Paul Clarke

As I noted a moment ago, you could bottle up your fresh tequila and sell it as a blanco without any oak aging whatsoever. At El Tequileno, however, Tony Salles and his team still put their blanco or platinum tequila into oak just for a short stretch of time. And Tony and his team are also increasingly expansive about the different directions that barrel aging can take their tequilas. 

Tony Salles

Okay, we like to play around. First of all, all of our blancos do have. I’m not going to aging period, but all of our blancos must go through wood for at least two weeks. We’ll put them through our Pipones for at least two weeks, which are American oak wood. So all of our blancos, it’s either the 100%, the mixto or the still strength, 100% agave. They all have to go at least two weeks. They have to be rested in American oak. Then we got different types of reposados.

We like to play around with our reposados. So our traditional reposado, the one that we started with three-month-old reposado, aged in Pipones, American oak. Then we came out with another reposado, which was—we call it Gran Reserva—eight months in American oak pipones. But then we decided to blend in añejo. Añejo for about 18 months that came from two different types of barrels, American oak, ex-bourbon, and French oak, ex-Chardonnay. Then we also have a reposado, which is cristalino, comes also from the Pipones, American, which is four months.

We got another—the other two that we know, it’s the Rose, which is not a reposado, it’s a joven. It really used to be aged for four months in French oak barrels, ex-Pinot Noir. We got the one that we call the Sassanac, which is aged for almost two years in American oak Pipones. And then it passed into one of the new French oak Pipones we used to do white wine. And, oh, we got our well-known “Tequileno Rare,” which unfortunately is almost gone. That was age in a pipón, American oak for six years.

And then we got others like the añejo, which is a blend of different type of barrels. I mean basically American oak experiment, American oak ex-Chardonnay, and French oak ex-Chardonnay. And finally our extra Añejo, which is also a blend of five barrels, we do a thousand bottles a year that come from those three types of barrels. So, we like to play around every now and then. We come up with different special editions and try to find new ways of aging tequila. The way we make tequila is going to remain the same because we like the way we do tequila. We love our tequila. So now we’re looking to give you a different age, a different flavor with the aging of different barrels. And every time we’re trying new barrels to see how the process comes. 

Paul Clarke

If we’re talking about aging tequilas though, we really need to circle back to Sergio Mendoza at Don Fulano. I visited Don Fulano’s aging cellars a while back during a visit to tequila. And Sergio and Enrique are pursuing a maturation strategy that’s particularly notable in tequila. While they likely agree with Carlos Camarena on a certain level that the flavor of the agave is paramount and needs to shine through any aging that’s been done, they’re also exploring techniques and tools for aging and blending tequilas that draw directly from the traditions found in Scotland and France. 

Sergio Mendoza

It was pretty notable. It was pretty notable that honestly, Enrique, my uncle, was a pioneer because of course we had aging in tequila. But aging was done in a more simplistic way. Of course, this beauty and this complex art of maturation and blending, which you’re absolutely right. And of course, Enrique didn’t have the idea just out of nowhere. He visited many regions in Scotland, in France. And he had an insight about this complexity that lies behind other spirits.

Of course, in Tequila, I always say that as many things in Mexico, we’re sometimes a little bit spoiled in many ways. So we as an industry and as with the beauty and the complexity of the agave, there wasn’t really a need to explore deeper. Whereas in other spirits, of course, you need the maturation element because you’re parting from a much more simple raw material. So you need that complexity to happen. In tequila, in agave spirits, you have a lot of maturation happening in the fields, no? And a lot of complexity that comes from there. But Enrique, seeing all of this, he immediately thought, no, what if we put both together, the complexity of the agave, but also the beauty and richness of maturation?

And that’s really when the real categories of añejo and extra añejo tequilas were born, no? Because we have to remember that reposado existed before, but reposado, its origin is more of an accident, no? Because a lot of tequila was sold in casks, no? Just to transport between Guadalajara and tequila. And that time spent, no? Those 60 days or three months spent there started being recognized as something, no? But it wasn’t an intentional maturation, no? But this intentional laying of products and specific style of products to rest and then to blend, that was definitely an innovation at that time, no? 

Paul Clarke

I mentioned a moment ago how the concept of old in tequila is much shorter than the standard we might use when talking about whiskey or cognac. But for Don Fulano, are there lessons that can be learned from these other spirits categories that can influence the way we think about aging and blending tequila? 

Sergio Mendoza

Again, going back to Enrique, no? Because when he started, I was, of course, very, very young at that time. But everyone, no? Including his father, who was already very into tequila and, of course, a great agave farmer. But even his father, and they really told him, no, what are you doing? No, laying so much tequila in barrels. He had the vision. And even within the family, they were like, wow, what are you doing, no? But yes, absolutely. We, that’s why we use, and we like to use, savored casks, no? And from wine without heavy charrings.

But usually European, no, which means older woods, older trees that have been savored with wine to be able to go deep into aging, no? Because, of course, one of the things we never want to lose is the character of the spirit, no? The agave. And that’s what we felt that was happening with a lot of tequilas, no? By being aged in heavily burnt ex-bourbon casks, which is, there’s nothing wrong with the cask. It’s great. Just for shorter periods. Because what starts happening is that you start losing the essence of the spirit, no? In favor of the notes brought forward by the cask, no?

So we wanted to go deep into maturation, but keeping the essence of the spirit. Another thing that is still not very common is the way we use all these very, very old products that you’re referring to blend, no? To blend in small percentages, to, to give character, to, to highlight some nuances of the product, no? To give personality to each of the bottles that we make, to each of the brands that we make, um, and for us, that is, that is an amazing way to go about it, no? And it just, of course, takes time and patience and a lot of keeping batches separate and blending. So it is, it’s, it’s an art, honestly, no? And which is the beauty, but also the complexity of it. 

Paul Clarke

Tequila is more popular than ever in the U.S. and international markets, which is great news in some ways for tequila producers. But popularity also puts stress on producers, particularly those who follow a slower, smaller, more traditional route. Let’s come back to Chava Rosales from Cascahuin, as we anticipate what the future looks like and should look like for tequila producers. 

Chava Rosales

Okay. Okay. For the tequila industry as a whole, I think the challenge is being clear and transparent about what the tequila is. The category will continue to grow and expand in global markets. Tequila is more popular than ever, you know, and that’s a great opportunity that needs be handled responsibly. For us, for my family, our biggest challenge, again, is staying true to our processes and changing the way we produce tequila because respect the processes, no?

Those methods are, for us, what gives Cascahuin its identity for that, no? Another big challenge for us is working again in the fields, taking care of the lands, and keeping healthy for the future generation. All the companies find the growth in the market. So we also focus and control growth, reaching new markets without losing who we are, no? It’s maybe the ideas and the philosophy for continuous in Cascahuin. 

Paul Clarke

So, what’s a tequila drinker to do? As tequila drinkers, we have options. In our March/April issue, we list a few different producers and bottles to get started with as you pursue your own tequila adventures. And we’ve got more online at imbibemagazine.com. But when thinking about tequila, and what’s in it, and sorting out the quality from the lesser so, and determining what you can learn about a tequila, it’s important to do a little research, but also be confident in letting your palate show you the way. Here’s John Douglass from Pretty Decent. 

John Douglass

I think that the fun thing is why does this taste the way this tastes? You know, why does  Amatatania tequila taste like barbecue? They use mesquite wood to cook the agave. And they smoke it a little bit, and that’s what gives it that, you know, Lay’s barbecue chips flavor. Why does this one taste like Parmesan rind? Well, they ferment it for a little bit longer, and it goes to malolactic, you know? Why does this one taste like birthday cake? Well, it’s because it’s dosed with additives. Why is this one, you know, if I put a little in my hand, really sticky? It’s because it’s dosed with additives.

Like, if you ask yourself, not just does this taste good? Do I like this, but why does it taste the way it tastes and what’s creating those flavors? And it’s almost like if you remember The Wire on HBO years ago and Lester Freeman, who was like, follow the money. It’s kind of like, follow the origin of the flavor and ask yourself, why does this taste the way this does? And ask questions and learn and discover why something tastes the way it tastes. And then you’ll get really quickly to the bottom of a really compelling story about a delicious spirit quite frequently. 

Paul Clarke

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode and for joining us in our conversation with tequila producers. We hope you picked up something useful from it. And thanks so much to Guillermo, Chava, Jenny, Ana Maria, Carlos, Sergio, Tony, and John for taking the time to talk as we prepared our tequila feature for our March/April issue. Please let us know what you think. Or if you have any comments or questions, you can reach me directly by email at paul at imbibemagazine.com. 

And that’s it for this episode. Subscribe to Radio Imbibe on your favorite podcast app to keep up with all our future episodes. We’ve got tons of tequila information and recipes for you online at our website, imbibemagazine.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, and Threads for all our day-to-day coverage. And if you’re not already a subscriber to the print and or digital issues of Imbibe, then let’s change that situation today. Just follow the link in this episode’s notes, and we’ll be happy to help you out. I’m Paul Clarke. This is Radio Imbibe. Catch you next time.