Episode 148: Everyday Sake With Yoko Kumano and Kayoko Akabori

Yoko Kumano and Kayoko Akabori have been introducing guests to sake, shochu, and other Japanese beverages for many years now at their Oakland, California bottle shop and bar, Umami Mart. (We shared an in-depth history of Umami Mart in 2024.) This spring, the duo are introducing their new book, Everyday Sake: The Go-To Guide for Choosing, Pairing & Serving. And they join us to talk about the world of sake and how they’re helping guests and readers with their own sake explorations. 

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Paul Clarke 

Hey everyone, welcome back to Radio Imbibe from Imbibe Magazine. I’m Paul Clarke, Imbibe’s editor-in-chief.

And one thing that we’ve learned over the 20 years we’ve been putting together Imbibe is that there are certain places across the country that have earned the status as an institution in the larger drinks world. A lot of these places are bars or coffee shops of the type that we regularly cover in Imbibe. But some of them are sort of hybrid models, ticking off several boxes at once. A brewery with a great taproom, for example, or a restaurant with a great wine program that also happens to serve amazing cocktails. 

One of the places that has earned a spot on the institutional list, I think, is Umami Mart in Oakland, California, established and owned by Yoko Kumano and Kayoko Akabori. We covered Umami Mart’s origins a couple of years ago for an online article. You can find that at imbibemagazine.com. We’ve got a link for you to that story in this episode’s notes.

And Umami Mart started out as a retail shop, focusing on food and drink from Japan, from tea to shochu to Japanese whiskey. At one point, a bar was added to the shop so that guests can come in, taste their way through a few different things, then pick up a bottle to bring home. And over the years, Yoko and Kayoko have established their own areas of expertise, sake for Yoko and shochu for Kayoko, with corresponding ranges of bottles and clubs from Umami Mart.

And now they’re leveling up on the sake front with the release of their first book, Everyday Sake, the Go-To Guide for Choosing, Pairing, and Serving, published by Clarkson Potter. The book comes out in May, you can pre-order online or from your favorite retailer. And it manages to cover sake in a way that’s both in-depth and comprehensive, and also really accessible. So in advance of the book’s release, we’re chatting with Yoko Kumano and Kayako Akabori about the world of sake. What makes it so fascinating, how much variety there is within the category, and ways that curious drinkers can begin their own sake explorations. 

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Paul Clarke

Yoko, Kayoko, welcome to Radio Imbibe. 

Kayoko Akabori 

Hi, Paul. Thanks for having us.

Yoko Kumano 

Thank you. Hi, Paul. 

Paul Clarke 

It’s great to talk to you all again. And, you know, regular readers of Imbibe may recall you and your shop, Umami Mart in Oakland, California, from some of our coverage of shochu a couple of years ago. But we’re talking today because this spring, you’re coming out with a brand new book, Everyday Sake, the Go-To Guide for Choosing, Pairing, and Serving. So first of all, congratulations on the book. 

Yoko Kumano

Thank you. Yeah, we’re excited about it. 

Paul Clarke

I bet. Now, Yoko, since you’re the resident sake person at Umami Mart, I’ll start with you. You’ve been selling sake through Umami Mart for more than a decade now, both right out of the brick-and-mortar store as well as through your sake club. In that time, from your conversations with guests, whether they’re longtime fans of sake or maybe they’re just getting started, what kinds of recurring questions and needs or information vacuums did you see where you thought, you know, we should really put out a book on this and kind of answer all of these altogether? 

Yoko Kumano

Yeah, I think that people come in with a lot of curiosity about sake. It’s still the most common question is, I’m having sushi tonight for dinner. What kind of sake should I have tonight to bring home? So, you know, that’s something that we address in the book. I also, one of the very common questions is, what temperature should I have sake? Another very common question is, how long does sake last after I open a bottle? So those are all things that we address in the book. And then again, the follow-up questions are, you know, how do I heat sake? Or what vessel should I drink the sake out of?

So I think working out of, in a retail setting, it’s really interesting because these things in a restaurant are already done for you. You know, they pour it in some kind of vessel, they bring it with a certain type of food. What I love about introducing sake to people in a bottle shop is that they’re pairing food at home with the sake, and then they have to be aware of how to store it afterwards or how to serve it. So those are the most common questions. 

Paul Clarke

Right, right. And in the years that you’ve been doing this, you’ve both traveled to Japan a number of times, you’ve visited a number of different producers. What kinds of experiences did you have that made you want to put those tastes and thoughts and information all together and make that available to your audience and to a wider audience? 

Yoko Kumano

Yeah, I think that sake, it’s such an old craft. And I think that we get it here in the U. S. and maybe even in Japan. It’s a little disengaged from the production, the culture and the history of sake, which I think is really interesting. And we do address a lot of that in the book. But I think that the current climate and ultimately all the toji or the brewers do want you to be able to taste the sake and say, this is delicious. You don’t have to know so much of the backstory to just enjoy it, drink it, and have it casually. I think that is the aim of the current brewers. They’re trying to create sakes that are just delicious, they’re fun.

You know, you don’t have to have so much stage fright in having to create this very gigantic sushi meal or a ramen broth and pair it with the sake. I love that they are doing things like, you know, bringing up the acidity or lowering the alcohol. And so that, you know, you can have it with pizza or you can have it with hot dogs or cheese and things like that. Because in Japan, I think like it is here, we’re so exposed to flavors of the world. And I think that the brewers in Japan are very aware of that and they want sake to be on a table contains all flavors from all types of cuisines. 

Paul Clarke

Right, right. I want to get into that in a little bit. But first, looking at the book, just, you know, at the outset, you just out of the gate, you address one set of misconceptions about sake. Because sometimes we see sake referred to as rice wine or rice beer or something of that nature. What are some of the distinguishing factors about sake that really puts it into its own category? Because neither of those descriptors are particularly accurate. 

Yoko Kumano

I think the main thing is koji. So sake, one, has to be made with rice. So you cannot put, you know, a different grain or a fruit in there. And it’s basically five ingredients and that is it. So it’s rice, water, yeast, and koji. And the optional distilled spirit or sake can be finished with distilled spirit. But most commonly, it’s just rice, water, yeast, and koji. So the addition of koji, so you have to use koji, you have to use at least 15% of koji when you’re making sake compared to all the other ingredients. You know, when we talk about beer, koji is kind of like as to the malting process in beer. It is allowing, koji is allowing the rice to turn into usable sugars that will then turn into alcohol.

And so I think that the use of koji, which creates a lot of amino acids, really makes sake unique. You cannot have sake without koji. Also, you cannot have it without rice. So I think those are the main points that define it from, especially beer and wine, because wine, you have to use a fruit and you don’t use koji. And then with beer, there are beers that use koji now instead of malting. But a beer, you know, you can use any type of grain. 

Paul Clarke

And thinking of that kind of parallel understanding of categories like wine and beer, because a lot of folks may be familiar with that and how they may or may not relate to sake. You point out that, A, all sake must be made from rice, as you noted. And while there is some significance to the varietal of rice being used, to throw in a comparison to the wine world, really when talking about sake, a more useful thing to think about is how that rice has been processed or polished and what role that plays in the sake, right? 

Yoko Kumano

That’s correct. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s another question kind of circling back to your previous question about common questions we get is, you know, how does the rice varietal affect the resulting sake kind of like, you know, wine grapes. While they do have a role in affecting the flavor of the sake or the type of sake, it is more, you know, a brewer may use a certain type of rice for a certain type of sake, because it behaves a certain way.

So for example, if you’re using Yamada Nishiki, which is a really common rice for making Daiginjos, which… Daiginjos are made with rice that has been polished down quite a lot, this rice grain is ideal for a lot of rice polishing. So it’s more than like the flavor profile. It’s kind of how does the rice react to polishing? Does it break? Does it polish well? Is it hard? Is it soft? Things like that. So I think that it’s… It’s in addition to maybe some of the flavor profiles that these different rice varietals, it’s more… How does the rice physically react to the preparation of the rice? Does it absorb a lot of water? Does it break during polishing? Things like that. 

Paul Clarke

And while we’re talking about terms and terminology, you distinguish in the book sake types from sake styles. And then you highlight seven types and then eight styles of sake. What’s the difference here, just so we can frame it correctly in our thinking? And why isn’t it important for better understanding sake that we understand the difference between these two? 

Yoko Kumano

Yeah, so for types We are basically talking about terms like junmai, daiginjo, ginjo. These are specifically dependent on what type of ingredients are involved and how much the rice has been polished. So those are things that are pre-fermentation, right? It’s like how much are you polishing the rice and what is going into the sake? So again, is it the four ingredients that we mentioned? Rice, water, yeast, koji, or is it five ingredients where you add a little bit of that distilled alcohol? So that’s one thing. What are the ingredients? Second thing is how much is the rice polished? So with those two, you can basically figure out what type is the sake.

For styles, it is mostly terms and processes that happen after fermentation. For example, did you pasteurize it, did you age it? Did you dilute it with water? Did you, um, charcoal filter it? So these are finishing techniques, right? And we see that with wine and beer as well, right? You know, you see different beers that might come out or a same type of beer, but it’s pasteurized versus not pasteurized or other, other spirits too. It’s like how much age is there on this one versus that one. We in the book describe a type is kind of like the noun. So that’s the first thing you can define.

And then the styles are more like the adjectives. So what did they do to that now? You know, so is it an aged junmai, or is it an unpasteurized ginjo, but that’s the way that we explain it to our customers and I think it helps people understand that there’s like two things that can be defined here, right? It’s like the type and then you have what did they do to that sake prior to bottling it. Some of the other styles that are not post-fermentation or finishing technique has to do with a starter. So those are other styles that the brewer can apply to a sake. 

Paul Clarke

And in the book, you go one by one through these different kinds of styles and calling out, you know, some of the details about them. And you offer some characteristics and tasting notes and things of that nature, but also you briefly touched upon recommended serving temperatures and what type of drinking vessel to use for that sake and food accompaniments. How did you see that information as being particularly useful to your readers, especially when you’re thinking of like, you know, that title in your head, everyday sake? How are you thinking like how to break this down and really kind of make it, you know, useful on an everyday basis for folks? 

Yoko Kumano

Yeah, I mean, I think this is something that Kayoko and I have had a lot of practice in running the bar and then also the retail store. When you are recommending these things, there’s always a caveat, right? Like these are generalizations But they’re very helpful because I think when you’re starting out, you know, learning something, at least you can have some touch points to start with, with, for example, if you are having a junmai ginjo, like have it chilled is something that we recommend. Maybe not all junmai ginjos are great chilled, but most brewers are intending the end drinker or user to chill a junmai ginjo. The general intention is that, right?

So the brewer is assuming that the end user is probably going to chill their junmai ginjo and junmai ginjos are kind of fruity. For say, like a kimoto junmai, so kimoto is a starter method, so that’s the style, and a junmai is a kind of it’s using just the four ingredients of rice, water, yeast, and koji, and it’s not as polished. So it’s kind of rich in a little bolder. The brewers are obviously aware that they’re making kind of a richer, bolder style, and so they should expect that people will have this at a higher temperature, whether it’s room temperature or warm.

Again, some kimoto junmai’s are really pretty and delicate and might be better chilled, but most are going to be quite nice, a little bit higher in temperature, because you start getting a little bit more of those bolder flavors, and you can really pick up on those aromas. 

Paul Clarke

You know, I think sometimes when we talk about different drinks categories or drinks traditions, including sake, but I mean it could be, you know, scotch whiskey, it could be cognac, you know, pick anything really from around the world, especially those that have been around for centuries. It’s easy to think that everything about that drink and the way it’s made is defined by history and kind of preserved in amber, right?

And it’s one thing that doesn’t really change, but that kind of thinking does a disservice in a way to the individuals who are working within that traditional framework today. Uh, and are looking at ways to be creative or innovative or to make a drink, make a sake that fits all the definitions and all the rules, but is still something kind of new and novel and something that will be useful to audience. Where do you see these kinds of innovations and explorations going on within the world of sake? Where do you see this kind of creativity exercising itself? 

Yoko Kumano

I think that in food pairing, it is happening where a lot of brewers are very aware that people in Japan and around the world are having sakes, um, alongside flavors, know, outside of Japanese cuisine. One of the main things that they’re doing is kind of bringing up the acidity, right? So, Japanese cuisine is generally kind of light, right? they’re not very like buttery flavors. They’re, you know, not as meaty as say, Italian food or something like that. So, with sake, a lot of times it has about a fifth, of the acidity, typically, of wine. And so, by bringing up the acidity, brewers are creating sakes that can be a little bit more flexible when pairing with richer foods. So, that’s one thing. And they’re very aware of that. And they’re trying to, um, make sakes in that direction.

Another direction is that they’re lowering the alcohol percentage. So, you know, right now there’s a lot of kind of lower ABV options out there and people are looking for more lower ABV drinks. so, um, and so sake typically is around 15% alcohol. So, you are seeing sakes coming out, especially in the summertime that are a little bit lower in alcohol, like 10 to 12%. And some of them also are good on ice or as a high ball. Those are very kind of like fun, newer ways of having sake.

There are a lot more women who are making sake. In the past, it’s been restricted to women making sake because in the koji room, it’s really hot. And most of the time you’re like working shirtless and all these things. Then like, you’re spending the night. And so, it’s kind of like you’re in this dorm room. Yeah, while there are a lot of sake brewery, or I don’t know, I don’t want to say a lot, but there are a good amount that still work in that very traditional way of like, toiling away and like, sweating and, and spending the night and all this stuff in the brewery.

And so, a lot of the breweries we go to are very highly technological, so they’re using a lot of machines and, and monitoring the koji. You don’t have to spend the night, you’ll get an, you’ll get an alert on your phone if the temperature goes up or down and you need to go in and monitor it. So, I think that, and, and, you know, say just getting the rice from one place to the other, you see a lot of images of strong people going up the stairs with a sack of rice. That happens, but there’s a lot of conveyor belts and, and pumps and all these kinds of things that are being utilized now, right?

So to just move, literally move the fermentation mash to one tank or the other or moving the rice, which allows for all kinds of people to now work in the brewery. And that’s really great, right? It’s like, it’s good for you know, I think that it gives an opportunity for not only women, but physically challenged people or people who aren’t Japanese. You know, we’re seeing more like, students say, you know, who are studying fermentation in Japan, like at a university, we see them at the brewery working. And so I think that technology has really allowed people to go in and work in those spaces. 

Paul Clarke

You dedicate a good part of the book to tasting sake and evaluating it and learning from it, but also taking that information and turning it into applied knowledge, as you mentioned a moment ago. You know, how to think about sake as a sommelier, how to do that cross comparison, like, oh, I’m usually a red wine person or a Chardonnay person or a sherry person.

Here are sakes that will streamline those kinds of similar characteristics or how to order in a restaurant or pick it off the shelf or how to pick a sake that will pair well with pizza or with tacos and not always just thinking about sushi. And this is, I would imagine, where the proverbial rubber hits the road in terms of talking about sake to potential sake consumers here in the United States today and making it understandable and accessible on this day to day level. Was that fair? 

Yoko Kumano

Yeah, and maybe I’ll pass that to Kayoko because she did a lot of that part of the book. 

Kayoko Akabori

Yeah, we did spend a lot of time on the food section and the pairing and sort of just bringing it really down to an introductory level for people who have no experience with sake or very little experience with sake. And how to sort of break down the first part of the book and make it more practical, where I think that. The entire book, and especially the food pairing sections, it really comes from our customers. We just corralled all of the questions that our customers will come in for the first time and have.

And, you know, when we start talking about polishing and the types of sake, you know, you can kind of tell when someone, it just goes over their head. Sake really is such a complex beverage, and it has, you need a lot of information in order to really piece together the types and the styles and the polishing. But all of that is so important and inherent to the, what you’re drinking in the bottle. And so there are people who are really interested in that portion of, wanting to learn about the beverage. But there’s really a lot more practical people who just want to know how to drink it. Or, I don’t really know a lot about this, but I usually drink white wine, or Sauvignon Blanc, or a Cabernet Sauvignon, or, you know, tequila, you know.

And then we try to kind of take it from there. Or, you know, it’s something like, yeah, I’m having tacos tonight. Or I’m having a sashimi dinner. And so we sort of try to guide them that way. Yeah. Yeah, for the book, we definitely just wanted to make it sort of so people can kind of skip through and just kind of find the information that they wanted. Hopefully all of the sections speak to them, but they have to start somewhere. So I do think that the pairing part will sort of help them. 

Paul Clarke

And I think, you know, going back to my earlier question about, you know, production of sake, where, you know, we can think of it, or we can probably mistakenly think of it as preserve it in amber, kind of static, never really changing. The same thing goes for serving sake, because it’s 2026. As you noted earlier, you know, we live in a wide food world.

You guys live in the Bay Area, one of the great food regions in the country. And I know you both have a food and culinary background that kind of brought you into this as well. So when you look at sake, you’re not just looking at it as this one kind of isolated category. And here, you know, we need to know all the details, but only from this kind of perspective. You’re looking at it from this wider ranging, you know, kind of global culinary perspective. Would that be fair? 

Kayoko Akabori

Yes. And I think Yoko mentioned earlier that the brewers in Japan are also brewing for that global cuisine as well. You know, they’re not just, they’re certainly not making sake to pair with sushi 100% of the time. And in fact, that’s going to be, you know, the minority of what the brewers will suggest for pairing. You know, every month for our sake club, we do interviews with the brewers. And we ask them, you know, what would you pair the sake with? And it’s almost never sushi, you know, and it’s usually going to be something grilled. You know, it’ll be pasta. You know, it’ll be comte cheese.

I think that, yes, I think our, we’re very lucky in the Bay Area to have such a diverse community of cuisines and the clientele to want to explore that. And then to pair it with sake even more, it becomes even more niche. But I think that sake, there’s so many different types of sake and styles of sake that can speak to any kind of cuisine. And we really wanted to kind of share some of that in the book. 

Paul Clarke

You know, we’re getting near the end here. And in our closing comments, I’d like to bring it back to the title of Everyday Sake. Because with the information you put together here, both the deep dives into the styles and the types and some of the history, as well as some of the information you put together, suggestions and guidelines and framework, you’re really leaning into that notion and trying to make it realistic to readers. The thing about sake, not just as something you get on sushi night, but as something that can fit in with your kind of everyday lifestyle, with your everyday cooking at home or going out. Kudos to you on going all the way with that. 

Kayoko Akabori

Thank you so much. 

Paul Clarke

Well, Yoko, Kayoko, it’s always so wonderful to chat with both of you. Congrats again on the book. And thanks for sharing your sake journeys with us. 

Yoko Kumano 

Thank you, Paul. 

Kayoko Akabori

Thank you. 

Yoko Kumano

It’s been a pleasure. And we love your community. 

Kayoko Akabori

Yeah. Thank you, Paul. Thanks for having us. 

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Paul Clarke

Everyday Sake, the Go-To Guide for Choosing, Pairing, and Serving, comes out May 26th. You can pre-order a copy online by heading to umamimart.com or from your favorite book retailer. And you can find Umami Mart on Instagram at @umamimart. We’ve got those links for you in this episode’s notes. 

And that’s it for this episode. Subscribe to Radio Imbibe on your favorite podcast app to keep up with all our future episodes. We’ve got tons of recipes and articles for you online at our website, imbibemagazine.com. Keep up with us day-to-day on Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, and Threads. And if you’re not already a subscriber to the print and or digital issues of Imbibe, then let’s get you on board in celebration of our 20th anniversary. Just follow the link in this episode’s notes, and we’ll be happy to help you out. I’m Paul Clarke. This is Radio Imbibe. Catch you next time.